urbanMSP

The Downtown Minneapolis vibrancy conundrum: http://tcbmag.com/news/articles/2020/ma ... -conundrum

Great read overall, lots of choice quotes from developers and politicians.

Mod note: The previously separate retail & restaurant threads have been combined, starting with posts circa May 2020. Everything from 2012-2020 has been locked & archived here: viewtopic.php?t=987

I find it interesting the asseveration that Chicago's vibrancy comes from in part traffic congestion being so horrific that office workers are stuck after work buying overpriced food an beverages rather than being able to get home to their family in the suburbs.

Also, on my article on the changing retail scene there was a comment to the effect that the United States has way too much retail, something like 10 times that of Germany. I don't know but looking around at all the vacancies it seems to me there is indeed too muc. Although I get while the developers forced to put in ground level retail or else they wouldn't be allowed to build aren't inclined to subdivide it, I don't think that if they did there'd be anywhere close to enough cute local coffee shops or whatever to fill them.

I find it interesting the asseveration that Chicago's vibrancy comes from in part traffic congestion being so horrific that office workers are stuck after work buying overpriced food an beverages rather than being able to get home to their family in the suburbs.

I wonder if he was referring more to people who live in other parts of Chicago proper doing that (probably more on the younger side). I could be wrong, though. The people I know who work in Chicago proper also live there, and likewise for the Chicago suburbs.

I find it interesting the asseveration that Chicago's vibrancy comes from in part traffic congestion being so horrific that office workers are stuck after work buying overpriced food an beverages rather than being able to get home to their family in the suburbs.

Also, on my article on the changing retail scene there was a comment to the effect that the United States has way too much retail, something like 10 times that of Germany. I don't know but looking around at all the vacancies it seems to me there is indeed too muc. Although I get while the developers forced to put in ground level retail or else they wouldn't be allowed to build aren't inclined to subdivide it, I don't think that if they did there'd be anywhere close to enough cute local coffee shops or whatever to fill them.

Too many retail spots or too many sq of retail? With the exception of some large department stores, my sense is that German stores are a lot smaller, on average.

Putting this here so it doesn’t get lost in the busy general thread. Great read overall, lots of choice quotes from developers and politicians.

The Downtown Minneapolis vibrancy conundrum: http://tcbmag.com/news/articles/2020/ma ... -conundrum

Interesting read; thanks for posting that. A few thoughts I had after reading it:

-- Replicating the success of the North Loop is very unlikely, because the North Loop wouldn't have happened without the Warehouse District first, and that situation doesn't exist in the other areas described. The North Loop as we know it today is the end result of a process that began decades ago and is built on previous phases (i.e. empty spaces transitioning to an art scene/bohemia, followed by more entertainment options, etc).

-- I don't agree with Sherman about the condo construction liability laws being too strong. I've seen too much shoddy construction in both my former condo and my current apartment building to think those laws need to be weaker. Even if it did result in more construction in the short term, it would lead to problems in the long term.

-- I do think Sherman made a good point about there probably being more "house/apartment poor" people downtown than one might expect. Some people leverage themselves pretty hard to get the lifestyle they want, or think they need. It's not just a suburban thing; I think this is common everywhere. Obviously someone needs a certain amount of money to be able to afford an expensive place to begin with, but that doesn't always leave much left over.

-- I wonder how much the pandemic will affect demand for downtown living. I don't see a perception of unhealthiness being the issue, though. I think it's more that people who can afford to live downtown can usually work remotely, and with much of what makes downtown appealing unavailable or seriously curtailed, at what point does the bloom come off the rose? But I think that depends on how long this lasts.

Is "East Town" officially dead?

I find it interesting the asseveration that Chicago's vibrancy comes from in part traffic congestion being so horrific that office workers are stuck after work buying overpriced food an beverages rather than being able to get home to their family in the suburbs.

Also, on my article on the changing retail scene there was a comment to the effect that the United States has way too much retail, something like 10 times that of Germany. I don't know but looking around at all the vacancies it seems to me there is indeed too muc. Although I get while the developers forced to put in ground level retail or else they wouldn't be allowed to build aren't inclined to subdivide it, I don't think that if they did there'd be anywhere close to enough cute local coffee shops or whatever to fill them.

Yes, America has far too much retail, but does downtown have too much retail? The vast majority of America's retail space is suburban malls, big boxes, and strip malls. National retail doesn't locate downtown because the MOA and other regional malls already oversupply that niche. From an urbanist perspective, killing off some of that suburban mall space would be beneficial to promote more sustainable (environmentally and financially) commercial development in the core. Unfortunately, our balkanized city governments all want as much tax base within their own city limits as possible, so we get a never ending cycle of new greenfield retail that becomes blighted vacant stores. (Strong Towns has put out some really good material on this subject)

Is Nicollet Mall even worth the continued effort and investment? Even parts of Manhattan are sleepy after business hours. Maybe it's ok. There are so many other pockets of the city where people are naturally drawn to, I don't see that part of downtown ever being as dense as we might want it to be. Build up Washington, build up St Anthony Main, North Loop etc. This attempt to will Nicollet Mall into something more than it is feels like chasing a ghost.

I agree, retail is dying all over, COVID is accelerating it. There are better ways to invest in our Downtown

The Downtown Minneapolis vibrancy conundrum: http://tcbmag.com/news/articles/2020/ma ... -conundrum

Wow, so many great things in that article (and a few that don’t make sense).

1. Photo caption “Downtown East is another neighborhood with lots of new housing but little streetlife” as it shows the intersection of two very wide streets (at least one is also for transit). Not a fun place to walk or congregate. Compare that to the North Loop which, other than Washington Ave., has mostly smaller streets that eventually end in T-intersections rather than being wide through streets for cars. Think about that.

2. Great talk about smaller businesses. I didn’t know Mayor Frey was so concerned about it. It’s a good thing to worry about. A downtown filled with huge chain stores isn’t very different from a mall—little street vibrancy both because it pulls cars/motorists from a long way away (necessitating more car infrastructure than pedestrian), and it’s a long space to walk past without interacting or having a coffee shop or other gathering spot. It’s a dead zone.

3. Also great talk about San Francisco’s tax on unrented storefronts. Force rents down; force building owners/management to subdivide space.

Nicollet Diner is moving to the vacant Ichiban space.

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/ ... house.html

I'll be curious to see what the remodel does to the exterior. The river stone facade is fun, but windows would be nice too.

I never made it to Ichiban before they closed - is that a usable second floor or just mechanical space?

They had a bunch (majority?) of teppanyaki tables on the second floor, and an incredible vaulted ceiling. Really the whole restaurant was beautiful inside and out. I miss it dearly.

Another one gone...

http://www.citypages.com/restaurants/st ... /572286791

The Bellecour bakery pop-up at Cooks of Crocus Hill in the North Loop is now permanent: https://www.startribune.com/bellecour-b ... 2/#comment

Goodbye HopCat.

Not too surprising. I've been assuming that any restaurant that didn't even try to partially reopen for the summer isn't going to, especially HopCat, which had a decent sized patio already and a pretty obvious place to expand it if necessary. I think they should have done takeout at the very least, with ~400 people living right above them and >1000 more within a block, but, hey, eventually some entrepreneur will realize that people do actually live downtown, right?

Not too surprising. I've been assuming that any restaurant that didn't even try to partially reopen for the summer isn't going to, especially HopCat, which had a decent sized patio already and a pretty obvious place to expand it if necessary. I think they should have done takeout at the very least, with ~400 people living right above them and >1000 more within a block, but, hey, eventually some entrepreneur will realize that people do actually live downtown, right?

Their bankruptcy probably had something to do with it.

https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids ... uptcy.html

That being said, I went to college near Grand Rapids, MI. I had heard about HopCat for years for years from friends that still lived in the area. My excitement when they arrived was quickly deflated by mediocre food and a overpriced beer list. Not going to miss them much.

I can't say I'm surprised. Their service was awful and prices were too high for the quality of food and drinks. They did have a good happy hour though.

They didn't even attempt to reopen since March. I suspect by April they were already planning on not reopening.

I welcome the rapture of massive restaurants from Nicollet tbh. If this is how it's going to happen, so be it. It's not like they're going to tear down Nic on Fifth or IDS Center to build a parking lot as a result.