New Basketball Arena Discussion

[SurlyLHT]

We can start this discussion again...not sure if it's time for a new thread?

"Better start hiring the architects.

Owners don't get into this game without looking at ways to maximize revenue. That can be generated through a state-of-the-art facility with all the bells, whistles and price points. Lore and Rodriguez are no different.

Yes, you are correct. Target Center underwent a $145 million renovation that was completed in 2017. There are new seats, an updated scoreboard and a nice sound system. Guess what? I can vacuum the floor of my Chevy and repair the cigar burns on the seats. At the end of the day, it's still a Chevy. Target Center was originally built in 1990, so it's not surprising that the new owners would want an upgrade.

The team's lease to play in Target Center expires after the 2034-35 season, with a $50 million penalty if owners choose to break it. Fifty million, however, is no huge hurdle in modern pro sports money."

https://www.startribune.com/alex-rodrig ... 600101430/

[alexschief]

Minneapolis shouldn't spend any public money on a new arena. But the city shouldn't reject this idea at all. When billionaire owners and sports teams get involved, there's a force of gravity that can help get a lot of other things happen. Modern stadium deals are more real estate plays than anything else. Lore made news recently with a wacky idea to build a new city in the desert, but he could be encouraged instead to put his money into building in the existing city where he now owns a sports franchise.

The public cost of US Bank Stadium was absurd and indefensible, but it is undeniable that that project became a catalyst for a much greater transformation Downtown East than could've happened piecemeal. In the case of the Target Center, I'd look for a way to turn a new basketball arena into a total rebuild and revitalization of the area currently occupied by the stub end of I-394 (fill it in) and the A, B, and C ramps (tear the latter two down).

[tedlanda2571]

I'd be interested to see them try for a new arena, just to see how it went down/if the atmosphere has changed. I honestly don't know.

My gut feel on team support is that if it all had to re-done today that the Vikings could still manage to get a stadium financed (although it would be harder), but that the Twins are darn lucky they got it done 15 years ago. Even the Loons stadium, with a <very> attractive financing proposal (vast majority privately financed), wasn't exactly a slam dunk, and that's a sport where interest in on a steep uptrend.

While the NBA might (?) still be more attractive than the MLB, it seems this town has a total disdain for the Timberwolves, and I'm having a hard time envisioning the political forces that would go to bat for them.

But that's just me, someone who, over the past 10 years, has lost 100% of my once fairly high interest in spectator sports...

[SurlyLHT]

I'd be interested to see them try for a new arena, just to see how it went down/if the atmosphere has changed. I honestly don't know.

My gut feel on team support is that if it all had to re-done today that the Vikings could still manage to get a stadium financed (although it would be harder), but that the Twins are darn lucky they got it done 15 years ago. Even the Loons stadium, with a <very> attractive financing proposal (vast majority privately financed), wasn't exactly a slam dunk, and that's a sport where interest in on a steep uptrend.

While the NBA might (?) still be more attractive than the MLB, it seems this town has a total disdain for the Timberwolves, and I'm having a hard time envisioning the political forces that would go to bat for them.

But that's just me, someone who, over the past 10 years, has lost 100% of my once fairly high interest in spectator sports...

I agree, if they had a winning season or two things may be different. Sometimes, I wonder what the point of them playing is...given they are so bad.

Downtown has much less open space then years ago. There is some opportunity near 394 however as mentioned.

[uptownbro]

I guess it depends on that the possible plan would be. Would we get to expand the plaza in front of target field and remove parts of 394? If so then I can maybe get behind a new stadium. Really I find it a hard sell when the team has been so bad for so long. I also dont for see the nba approving them moving. The NBA seems far more in favor of expanding these days then moving. The list of cities is pretty small. KC maybe?

[thespeedmccool]

Whatever deal is struck, there needs to be an agreement that a new stadium will be somewhere in Minneapolis or St. Paul (or maaaaybe the Bloomington South Loop.) A suburban stadium should be a no go. I'm pretty pro-public-stadium-financing, but that doesn't mean the Wolves should get a blank check to build some plastic box surrounded by 10,000 parking spaces in Shakopee. Let's leverage this into an opportunity to transform some part of town like what U.S. Bank did for East Downtown, Target Field helped do for the North Loop, and Allianz is doing for Midway.

I like the idea of tearing up/capping 394 Downtown near Royalston. I had another idea though too: that Sears site near the Capitol is in the process of master planning, maybe the Wolves could be financiers for a new urban neighborhood.

[MNdible]

Not that there's much room over there, but many cities get some synergy by locating their arenas immediately adjacent to their convention centers, allowing very large conventions to use the arena for events.

Presumably the new arena will have a physically larger footprint than the existing one, which means it won't fit on a single city block. (Not that Target Center actually fits on its block).

[SurlyLHT]

It should got at:

501 Royalston Ave, Minneapolis, MN 55405

There will be a new LRT station there, it's near the Target Field Station, the C line and there is space nearby for the new owners to help finance some nice things like housing w/affordable units and a new Farmers Market and some sort of parkland or plaza in this sea of concrete...also a 800' tower...actually just kidding on the last point...but then I wouldn't be opposed to Walmart moving their HQ here. (Or any of Lore's other business ventures.)

Fun Fact LMarc Lore is a really really good bobsledder....maybe TheoWirth can get a bobsled track?

[uptownbro]

If they move want a future stadium thats not at target centers current location this would be the best place. Or maybe there the A ramp is currently located

[Tyler]

I think it needs to stay where it is. Basketball is by far the most urban/cosmopolitan sport+ the events/concerts etc. makes this is the only stadium/arena that must be downtown IMO.

I think they could add good amount of width out back if 2nd (and the 6th st exit) were reworked (combined).

[amiller92]

It should got at:

501 Royalston Ave, Minneapolis, MN 55405

There will be a new LRT station there, it's near the Target Field Station, the C line and there is space nearby for the new owners to help finance some nice things like housing w/affordable units and a new Farmers Market and some sort of parkland or plaza in this sea of concrete...also a 800' tower...actually just kidding on the last point...but then I wouldn't be opposed to Walmart moving their HQ here. (Or any of Lore's other business ventures.)

Fun Fact LMarc Lore is a really really good bobsledder....maybe TheoWirth can get a bobsled track?

There's definitely something to be said for that. Too bad there's little room for redevelopment to the north (unless Metro Transit moves...). It's been vacant/underused for a very long time.

[SurlyLHT]

I think it needs to stay where it is. Basketball is by far the most urban/cosmopolitan sport+ the events/concerts etc. makes this is the only stadium/arena that must be downtown IMO.

I think they could add good amount of width out back if 2nd (and the 6th st exit) were reworked (combined).

Moving it a few blocks away to the edge of the Northside isn't exactly Bloomington. I also would love to see RFP proposals for their current location where it up for sale by the city. (I think it would be awesome if it could be converted into a community/fitness center.

[twinkess]

a) I hate this
b) Build it in the same spot and they can play in Xcel during construction
c) Seattle would LOVE a team

[Oreos&Milk]

10 years is still a little while away, however same location would be perfect since we invested all that transit info structures. Expand the footprint over 7th and 394 if necessary. Would mean better outside space combined with target field and easier connections to A ramp and maybe even B ramp.

[RedDutch]

Minneapolis shouldn't spend any public money on a new arena. But the city shouldn't reject this idea at all. When billionaire owners and sports teams get involved, there's a force of gravity that can help get a lot of other things happen. Modern stadium deals are more real estate plays than anything else. Lore made news recently with a wacky idea to build a new city in the desert, but he could be encouraged instead to put his money into building in the existing city where he now owns a sports franchise.

The public cost of US Bank Stadium was absurd and indefensible, but it is undeniable that that project became a catalyst for a much greater transformation Downtown East than could've happened piecemeal. In the case of the Target Center, I'd look for a way to turn a new basketball arena into a total rebuild and revitalization of the area currently occupied by the stub end of I-394 (fill it in) and the A, B, and C ramps (tear the latter two down).

I like that ......or tear down the stadium, build multi-use tower. Then build the new stadium where the Twins were going to build in the Farmers Market area. That area is ripe for redevelopment! The vision the Twins had for that area was awesome.....T-Wolves Town!

[seanrichardryan]

Whatever they do, the street geometry and 'The Point' bar need to come back.

[Record Machine]

maybe we can finally relocate the HERC! put a modern fieldhouse right on that spot and better connect the entertainment district w the north loop.

[Didier]

Not that there's much room over there, but many cities get some synergy by locating their arenas immediately adjacent to their convention centers, allowing very large conventions to use the arena for events.

This general idea, but for keeping the stadium generally right where it is now. We already have a lot of big-event infrastructure in this part of downtown. Also, as Tyler noted, basketball aside this is a great urban location for big concerts and other events.

If an arena was redeveloped here, I'd also love to create some sort of common space along First Avenue. Not sure if there'd be space, though.

Another interesting location is over by U.S. Bank Stadium. You have the big-event infrastructure there as well, and some of the buildings along the Commons are poorly designed for being next to a park. Replacing the juvenile court complex is probably unlikely, but could this be an opportunity to move the medical examiner building? The space probably isn't right, but interesting to think about.

[Trademark]

maybe we can finally relocate the HERC! put a modern fieldhouse right on that spot and better connect the entertainment district w the north loop.

Why are we so quick to relocate a sustainable power producer that powers much of the north loop and downtown area. If the HERC is torn down I'm guessing that there will have to be major environmental cleanups in order to make that site usable again for anything else. Not to mention more millions to build another facility like that. Also where would you put it? Can you imagine the NIMBY pushback?

If we don't relocate it, where will put the additional landfills needed to take the garbage that was incinerated. The additional emissions of garbage trucks having to drive to a new exurb landfill instead of a centralized location. And the additional power infrastructure needed to replace the power that HERC produces. Not to mention the fact that HERC is a great paying union job for many people in the city that doesn't need car access to get too.

Mixed use doesn't just mean apartments and retail. Mixed use also means industrial sites like this.

[BikesOnFilm]

I guess if you squint you can call burning garbage "sustainable."

The power plant in rural MN that runs on burning turkey droppings is technically sustainable too. Doesn't mean it's good to burn trash or turkey droppings, just that we're not at risk of running out of the power source.