Gold Line BRT - Woodbury to St. Paul (3/22/2025) and Minneapolis (2027)

[Tiller]

I think we can change this thread title to
"Gold Line BRT - Downtown Minneapolis to Woodbury" now

https://www.startribune.com/metro-trans ... /601166020

[Tiller]

What are the odds this is related to Riverview/Rush being dead now?

[daveybabymsp]

I think we can change this thread title to
"Gold Line BRT - Downtown Minneapolis to Woodbury" now

https://www.startribune.com/metro-trans ... /601166020

Well that is good news. Interested to see how it gets upgraded as part of the rethinking 94 project.

[twincitizen]

I think it's more likely to be one or both of:

1) They want to avoid yet another "Disappointing Ridership" headline and PR disaster, especially with more aBRT lines set to open soon, and funding pending for the almost $3B Blue Line Extension. Met Council / Metro Transit cannot afford another black eye right now. Now when the $500 million bus line opens with dismal ridership, they can say "well just hang on, Phase 2 to Minneapolis hasn't opened yet".

2) It's also possible this has been the operation plan for a while (internally), but for reasons related to the project structure, funding, etc. they had to stay within the confines of 'The Project' until construction was complete. Maybe, maybe there is an element of Metro Transit having the upper hand on Ramsey County right now (related to the failure of Riverview) and Metro Transit decided it was the right time to announce "this is what we're doing, don't you dare try to stop us over your bullshit insistence that it end at Union Depot".

I, personally, feel pretty great about being right about this and the new Blue Line extension route.

At the very least, this is great news for current riders of the 94. They'll now benefit from more frequent service, as well as service later in the evening and weekends too.

[Silophant]

Wow. Once the Rethinking 94 project got rolling I figured that we wouldn't see anything about a Gold Line extension until it was complete, no matter how long it took.

I'm curious how much is going to be included in the extension - at a minimum they'll need to build BRT stations at the Snelling on-ramps, but I'm hopeful that this is going to be the impetus to get the 8th St counterpart to the existing 7th St bus lane downtown. It'd also be about the right timeframe to move a couple of existing 7th/8th BRT stations to line up better with transit being moved from Nicollet to Marquette or 2nd or 3rd, if that ends up happening.

[DanPatchToget]

2) It's also possible this has been the operation plan for a while (internally), but for reasons related to the project structure, funding, etc. they had to stay within the confines of 'The Project' until construction was complete. Maybe, maybe there is an element of Metro Transit having the upper hand on Ramsey County right now (related to the failure of Riverview) and Metro Transit decided it was the right time to announce "this is what we're doing, don't you dare try to stop us over your bullshit insistence that it end at Union Depot".

I'm not understanding your second point since the Gold Line isn't terminating at Union Depot. Years ago that was the plan, but it was changed and it will go through downtown St. Paul and terminate at the Smith Ramp.

[twincitizen]

Lots of interesting nuggets in the Strib article. Gold Line will still open Woodbury to St. Paul as planned in March 2025. The extension to Minneapolis will happen in 2027.

Thompson said the cost of the extension will be $15 million to $20 million and be covered by the Metropolitan Council’s existing capital budget. Gold Line buses will also use existing C and D Line bus rapid transit shelters on 8th and 7th streets in downtown Minneapolis. A new bus shelter for the Gold Line will be built near U.S. Bank Stadium, Thompson said. The western-most stop will be at the Minneapolis Farmers Market — a stop on the Southwest light-rail line, which is slated to begin service in 2027. The current Route 94 express bus stop at Snelling Avenue and I-94 in St. Paul will be enhanced for Gold Line buses, he added.

I assumed Ramp B would be the endpoint as it has long been for Route 94, so the extension to the Farmers Market is exciting. I assume that also means the service will then be operated (either partially or fully) out of Heywood Garage. When the service was just Woodbury to St. Paul, I imagine it would have operated out of East Metro Garage exclusively.

Route 94 currently uses the pair of 6th and 7th Streets, so this will shift eastbound service in downtown Mpls from 6th to 8th. The bus still needs to shift over to 6th Street to get on 94 east, so that's why there will need to be a new BRT station near US Bank Stadium. The 94 currently makes stops on 6th Street at HCMC (Park/Chicago midblock), at 9th Ave and at 11th Ave, so I wonder what they're thinking for this one new BRT stop. I actually think it would be reasonable for the outbound Gold Line to board passengers at both HCMC and 11th Ave. I'm guessing the number of boardings at 9th Ave and 11th Ave are really low, but not zero. And it wouldn't really slow the line down that much to make that last stop at 11th Ave before getting on the freeway. Either way, it's easy enough to build another BRT platform in the future if riders demand it.

[Korh]

Anyone got a timetable to what the travel time will be because if the gold line ends up faster then the green line between Minneapolis and St Paul that's gonna be a little funny

[DanPatchToget]

I wonder if they intend to build a station at the Farmer's Market, or just using the closest existing BRT platforms. If it's the latter the C Line stop at Olson & 7th could be the western terminus with the Farmers Market being a third of a mile (about a 6-minute walk) away, and then Gold Line buses turn right on Lyndale and then another right back onto 7th Street and head back east.

[Tcmetro]

The 94 is appx. 20-25 mins from Nicollet in Minneapolis to Robert in St. Paul - this is great news.

Putting the Gold Line on I-94 gives Metro Transit a bigger stake in the MnDot project as well. Hopefully some positives come out of that, like median stations at Riverside and Snelling.

[MNdible]

Anyone got a timetable to what the travel time will be because if the gold line ends up faster then the green line between Minneapolis and St Paul that's gonna be a little funny

I mean, it's an express service traveling at near-freeway speeds in a grade separated trench, so of course it's going to be faster.

Which, by the way, is a really great reason to not re-think 94 too much...

[MNdible]

I'm surprised that they're not showing a Huron Avenue stop. Have they given up on that connection?

[Silophant]

The Gold Line Extension project page has a map with approximate station locations on it. On the Elliot Park end it shows new stations at 6th/11th eastbound and 7th/11th westbound - 8th St would probably be a little better for access to the neighborhood but it's hard to do a left turn from the curb lane, so that makes sense. On the other end of downtown, it just shows 7th/Olson as the last stop, which I imagine means the C Line stations, though the D Line station at 5th would be notably closer to the SWLRT station, so hopefully that isn't locked down yet.

As for Huron, I'm guessing they have given up on that connection unless and until the 94 project makes it possible to provide comprehensible two-way service there. Which seems like something to aim for, especially if the U gets its way and the hospital complex is moved to Huron.

[angrysuburbanite]

What would be really cool is if routes 351 and 355 were to be absorbed into the Gold Line brand as a limited version of it during peak hours rather than having them be separate routes in the same corridor. Something like an additional two trips per hour in peak periods stopping at Woodlane P&R, Downtown St. Paul, and Downtown Minneapolis. Just a thought, since I know 355 is still pretty popular.

[UrbanMPLS]

Why do we need to wait until 2027? Do they need to order more buses? Or hire more staff? Otherwise, it seems like you could pretty easily open this with the rest of the line. Might need some temporary stations at Snelling for a few months but that’s not a big problem.

[Anondson]

Seems like it was just a handwave to extend this.

Wonder if they could hand wave and extend the Red to downtown Minneapolis just as silently.

[Nick]

It is pretty funny to shake $20 million (4% of the project cost!) out of couch cushions and make a project three or four times more useful. Good work!

[mattaudio]

Condolences to Commissioner Ortega.
If the Purple Line ever happens, I'm thinking that would need to through-route to Mpls too.
I've always thought there should be some sort of overlay service brand between the downtowns or other areas where multiple routes interline on the same corridor.

Re Snelling, and presuming that Reimagining 94 is not actually going to lead to freeway removal, I hope there could be a rethinking of the Snelling interchange and area. It was already somewhat of a loss to intersect Snelling vehicle traffic and Green Line LRT at-grade (a short traffic tunnel under the station area would have helped train speeds and pedestrian experience at grade).
It would probably be easiest to do a Lake Street-style median station at great expense. But that would still result in bus access having to cross multi-lane high-volume ramps or Snelling itself. I wonder what it would take to have a dedicated guideway and station squeezed in between the freeway and the stadium, or elevated above the freeway median just south of the stadium. This would allow for grade-separated ped crossings to the stadium, to the Green Line station area, south towards Concordia and Snelby, and maybe a connection west across Snelling to access the southbound A Line station.

[Korh]

Anyone got a timetable to what the travel time will be because if the gold line ends up faster then the green line between Minneapolis and St Paul that's gonna be a little funny

I mean, it's an express service traveling at near-freeway speeds in a grade separated trench, so of course it's going to be faster.

Which, by the way, is a really great reason to not re-think 94 too much...

I under the impression that unlike the express there are gonna be some stops in-between along 94 regardless of re-think happens or not, question is how many and where.

[twincitizen]

I'm surprised that they're not showing a Huron Avenue stop. Have they given up on that connection?

Given that Huron was always a westbound-only stop AND required being picked up by a campus connector since you can't legally/safely walk from the stop (and has been closed for a few years now, right?), I think it makes sense to instead focus on making the transfer from westbound Gold to eastbound Green as comfortable as possible for riders heading to campus. Route 94 Huron stop users always needed to take a westbound bus or Green Line into downtown Mpls to catch the eastbound 94 in the afternoon. There are more transfer options nowadays that I don't think the drop-only stop at Huron is worth investing in. Maybe in a future interchange rebuild it would be worth taking another look at.

There's a guy on twitter clamoring for a Riverside stop, and given the existing configuration of that diamond interchange, it would be relatively painless to add a station there. Getting more ambitious, a short freeway cap spanning 25th to Riverside Aves would make for a better station area. I didn't love the idea of a Riverside station at first blush, but it's growing on me. It would provide direct service to Augsburg and the U's West Bank hospital campus. Catching the 2 at Riverside would be another great option for getting to both west bank and east bank.