Green Line Extension - Southwest LRT

[StandishGuy]

Does anyone here have a good sense why it will take another 4 years to complete this project considering construction is 75% complete and the tunnel is 55% done? Perhaps, the remaining tunnel, crash wall and stations like Penn Ave are just that complicated that it will take several more years? It seems that so much of the project from St. Louis Park to Eden Prairie is moving along at a decent pace. I understand there is a significant amount of time needed (1 year?) for testing once construction is done, but that still leaves 3 years...

[VacantLuxuries]

I don't know if the crash wall allows them to keep construction moving even when BNSF trains are in the corridor, but when I took one of the tours they said that they basically had to stop fifteen minutes prior to every train arriving, and then could only start up fifteen minutes after it fully left the area. I'm guessing that's a major part of why this area is further behind.

Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if they're continuing to project the worst case scenario for opening. Easier press release to say "We're done a year earlier than we projected" then to say "Guess what, we were optimistic when we said it would open 2025, guess it's 2027 guys."

[Korh]

Anyone old enough to remember when the blue and green lines where being built recall roughly how long it took from them being "almost done with construction" to fully open to the public?

[commissioner]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Met Council award the systems contract until last year (why they waited so long, I have no clue), you'd think that they would have all the contracts awarded before construction started, I believe that pushed back the opening (along with the tunnel and wall).

[UrbanMPLS]

Anyone old enough to remember when the blue and green lines where being built recall roughly how long it took from them being "almost done with construction" to fully open to the public?

Not really an answer to your question, but I did some poking around on street view to try and get a timeline.

I would say the western part of SWLRT looks pretty similar to how University Ave looked in October 2012, or about 20 months before revenue service. Stations mostly complete with tracks down, but no wires.

The Stadium Village station was in the early stages of construction in August 2012. In September 2012, you can see a test train in the station.

The Prospect Park station area had no signs of construction in September 2011 and was running revenue service three years later. For comparison, that’s less time than between now and the projected SWLRT opening.

Overall, it’s pretty discouraging to see how much faster we built transit just 10 years ago. Of course, the tunnel seems to be the main differentiator. Hopefully that projected opening date is just overly conservative.

[UrbanMPLS]

Meant to say September 2013 when talking about the testing at Stadium Village station.

[commissioner]

I live about a mile south of University and remember they started from the U/junction with the blue line to Dale Street in St. Paul in 2012, and east of Dale to Union Depot the following year. All the construction contracts were awarded before construction began (except of the signals and communications contract which I think was awarded 6 months after construction began if I remember right). By mid to late 2013, there were trains testing along the entire line with service starting in June of 2014.

[DanPatchToget]

Accidentally stopping on the tracks while waiting for the light at Wooddale Avenue reminded me how short-sighted it was to build the light rail at-grade through there. I know it's way more expensive to grade-separate, especially with a grade-separated station included, but signalized intersections with railroad crossings are a dangerous mix. Just ask Brightline.

[Korh]

tbf there's been tracks there for a long time (although are you talking about the lights on 36th or the new-ish ones for highway 7) without too much issue. And brightline have to deal with flordiamen which are a lot worse drivers, although we'll see how bad it'll get now that the Orlando leg is open cause I know they have some nasty grade crossings like a one that cuts straight through a roundabout.

[DanPatchToget]

tbf there's been tracks there for a long time (although are you talking about the lights on 36th or the new-ish ones for highway 7) without too much issue. And brightline have to deal with flordiamen which are a lot worse drivers, although we'll see how bad it'll get now that the Orlando leg is open cause I know they have some nasty grade crossings like a one that cuts straight through a roundabout.

I'm mostly talking about the one on 36th, but the new one for Highway 7 is pretty close to the crossing as well. While the signal for 36th has been there a long time there's only been a few freight trains per day, not light rail trains every 10-15 minutes.

With a station on Wooddale that should reduce the risk of a collision since trains going east will be slowing down and westbound trains are going from a stopped position, but then there's the possibility a vehicle will block the track(s) and the train can't just go around them.

[VacantLuxuries]

I don't think it's going to be anywhere near the level of issue as it is for Brightline.

The intersection at 36 is similar to many intersections the Blue Line passes through along Hiawatha. Whereas most of our systems car-versus-train collisions, to my recollection, have happened along the Green Line, with drivers making illegal left hand turns on red lights.

[DanPatchToget]

Some observations from my bike ride along the light rail construction between Shady Oak Station and Royalston Station:
-The South Cedar Lake Trail/Minnesota River Bluffs Trail/whatever you want to call it trail is now paved all the way east from Blake Road, in addition to the paved segment between the Hopkins Depot and 11th Avenue.

-Light rail tracks are in south/west of Shady Oak Station.

-Surprisingly the Kenilworth Trail is closed between West 21 Street and the connection with the North Cedar Lake Trail next to the future Bryn Mawr Station. Considering how much space there is I would've thought they could at least put in a narrow temporary trail off to the side.

-The new trail bridge across the light rail and BNSF tracks from Basset Creek Valley Station looks like it's around half complete.

-The new Glenwood Avenue bridge is closed to vehicle traffic, but it's possible to walk or bike across.

-Light rail tracks are in between Royalston Station and just east of Bryn Mawr Station.

-The crash-wall in between the light rail and BNSF tracks isn't as tall as I thought it would be. I still think BNSF should've paid for it, but at least it's not as big of an eyesore as I was worried it would be. Now if we could just commission some local artists to spruce it up so it's no longer a dull grey wall with the occasional graffiti tags.

[Tom H.]

Catenary wire is strung from the Southwest Station terminus at least as far as the Valley View Road overpass, heading towards the Golden Triangle station. I'm sure there's still systems work and testing to do, but in Eden Prairie the guideway appears to be essentially complete.

[Korh]

There's also a bunch of new/repaved trails around the opus and city west stations, wayfinding is still a bit of a pain but the tracks can give you a good point of reference and is nicer then biking compared to before construction started,

[DanPatchToget]

I forget if this has been brought up before, but as I biked on the trail through Hopkins and St. Louis Park a few days ago it seemed like the trail is an inch or two narrower than the old trail. Whether or not that's the case the multi-year long closure and construction could've/would've/should've been an opportunity to design the trail in a way that segregates pedestrian and bike traffic. Probably not physically segregate since that would require a lot of land, but a single trail wide enough to have shoulders on each side so there's designated lanes for pedestrians and bikes in both directions. With new development plus the eventual opening of the light rail there's going to be a lot of people using this trail (definitely more than the old trail), and I can see a lot of conflict happening between pedestrians and bikes.

In terms of separation from car traffic the new trail is an improvement, but through Hopkins and St. Louis Park it looks like the conflict issues between pedestrians and bikers won't be fixed, and will probably be worse.

[Anondson]

I think there were lost opportunities in the Cedar Lake Trail reconstruction to do a separation of pedestrian from cyclist trails. There were some sections that had room to build sections where walkers could have parallel separation, but seems engineers hoovered up all that to excavate storm water trenches. Ugh.

[Korh]

I think it should be fine since unlike near the lakes or the greenway there are fewer walkers using the trail for walking and the ones who do are usually jogging/running (although that could change depending on how much infill/development happens along the trail), I've biked it a few times and I honestly don't see it being narrower (someone grab a tap measure before the snow comes), but I am split on whether or not I like that it has a decent amount of climbing/descending now, or preferred the old trails straight flat shot from hopkins through SLP

[Bakken2016]

SWLRT.JPG

Some major milestones on Green Line Ext have happened. South Cedar Lake LRT Trail is reopened between Beltline and France, and a little over 11.5 contiguous miles of LRT track guideway has been laid between EP and West Lake.

Sometimes with how done most of the project looks, it hurts that the tunnel is holding everything up until 2027.

[Tom H.]

I still hold out hope that the 2027 estimate was an intentional over-estimate, so that they can wow everyone when they come in under. Is it possible to just visually assess the tunnel progress by measuring the amount of completed segments? They have to work it linearly, right?

[Oreos&Milk]

If I was King I'd just run trains from EP to West lake LRT service as an express route then a bus bridge from West lake to downtown via Lake St & Hennepin Ave.

Also would extend Greenline Officially to Farmers Market, and Penn Stations. Until the tunnel was ready ..but I'm not so I can't... sorry?