MSP Airport / Metropolitan Airports Commission

[gpete]

That's all fixed up now... You can walk from the LRT station in an enclosed walkway all the way to the terminal now. No more parking lot walks.

[mattaudio]

I used to fly DL nearly exclusively from Terminal 1 (and I still do if traveling for work and I need a direct flight) but now my wife and I mostly fly Southwest out of Terminal 2. The walk from the LRT is now fully conditioned space with moving walkways and not bad. It drops right in front of the new (second) checkpoint for the terminal, and there are now a handful of new businesses airside (Caribou, Barrio, Subway, and maybe another one or two). It's a great experience compared to walking 2 miles to an RJ over in T1.

[FISHMANPET]

I haven't flown out of Humphrey since they opened the new shops (though I think I have done it since they finished the walkway, so that was nice).

I like to explore when I'm in an airport, and Lindbergh is so limited. Humphrey is vast and part of me likes that.

[Wedgeguy]

I haven't flown out of Humphrey since they opened the new shops (though I think I have done it since they finished the walkway, so that was nice).

I like to explore when I'm in an airport, and Lindbergh is so limited. Humphrey is vast and part of me likes that.

Maybe I'm just confused, but Lingbergh is the huge main terminal WHICH CAN BE A HUGE NIGHTMARE, but more space to explore. Humphrey is the smaller and I think you can just look down the terminal and see everything than can be explored!! Does it have more than 14 gates yet?

[FISHMANPET]

Ugh, I was talking about Humphrey (the small one) in both cases in that last post.

I like LIndbergh (the big one), I don't like Humphrey (the small one), but I usually fly out of Humphrey (the cheap one).

[UptownSport]

Are there capacity issues at MSP? This is the first I've heard of that, if so.

Heck if I know ...

Using St. Cloud or Rochester as an overflow was talked about- Therefore, I ASSUMED there was a capacity issue ...
Silly me.

[mattaudio]

There aren't really capacity issues at MSP. STC and RST expansion planning occurs a) because the FAA requires airports to have an elaborate master plan and b) because airport managers and city boosters like to think they can get more flights.

Zip Rail to Downtown Rochester and Northstar to Downtown St. Cloud would provide better mobility, so that people in those regions can connect to a direct flight and get where they want to go. And HSR to Chicago would help reduce overall traffic demand for MSP, especially on feeder flights, if done right.

[FISHMANPET]

Anyone know how many flights there are from MSP to Chicago? I remember looking at Delta, and they've got flights that go to both Midway and O'hare.

[mattaudio]

Delta: 15 (8 to ORD, 7 to MDW)
American to ORD: 8
United to ORD: 13
Spirit to ORD: 3
Sun Country to MDW: 2
Southwest to MDW: 8

Looks like there's a total of 49 flights today between MSP and Chicago. Keep in mind I'm not a pro at reading timetables, so these numbers might not be perfect. But you get the point.

Edit: USA Today calculated 44 on average before the addition of Sun Country, so I'm close.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayinth ... t/2017827/

[talindsay]

Paris to Lyon is 465 km, roughly 300 miles. It takes 1 hour, 58 minutes by TGV, with 18 departures daily, starting at ~60EUR one way aboard TGV Duplex with seating for roughly 500 people per train. There are nine one-way flights between the two cities, taking 1 hour even, starting at ~200EUR one way aboard A318, A319, and A320 aircraft, with seating for 120-150. That means there are seats for 9000 people daily by rail and ~1300 by plane.

People talk about distances in North America being so much greater than Europe, but MSP - ORD is 398 miles, only 33% longer than Paris - Lyon. A TGV link between the two cities would render almost all that air traffic moot.

[mattaudio]

Indeed. Now, 70%+ of MSP-Chi is probably connecting at one end, so most traffic is not O&D. But the point if the Midwest HSR would be that people could connect by rail in Chicago just as they do by air in MSP or ORD. And feeder services like NLX, Zip Rail, and Northstar to St. Cloud would create more origin/destination pairs.

Finally, there's the opportunity to partner with airlines on both ends to provide connectivity. Amtrak does this with United at EWR on the Northeast Corridor. Short-haul hops are really loss-leaders for the airlines, around to help them fill up bigger planes on more profitable routes.

[talindsay]

Both France and Germany have their national railways set up to through-ticket with their national airlines. While I'm not especially impressed with either Lufthansa or Deutsche Bahn (you'll notice I rarely use them as examples) their through-ticketing scheme is really elegant - to the point that in major cities, you can actually check your luggage before boarding the train and not think about it again until you get to your (air) destination at the other end. Obviously an arrangement like this on this corridor would be very nice.

[FISHMANPET]

Just build the flipping MSP-Chicago line the math is so mind numbingly simple.

[min-chi-cbus]

Indeed. Now, 70%+ of MSP-Chi is probably connecting at one end, so most traffic is not O&D. But the point if the Midwest HSR would be that people could connect by rail in Chicago just as they do by air in MSP or ORD. And feeder services like NLX, Zip Rail, and Northstar to St. Cloud would create more origin/destination pairs.

Finally, there's the opportunity to partner with airlines on both ends to provide connectivity. Amtrak does this with United at EWR on the Northeast Corridor. Short-haul hops are really loss-leaders for the airlines, around to help them fill up bigger planes on more profitable routes.

I do not think 70% of all flights to Chicago are connecting. I realize it's a major hub but so is Atlanta, and there's nowhere near 49 flights a day to ATL. Chicago is a major destination for both business and leisure for Minnesotans, and there's a strong MN to IL connection in the Twin Cities and Chicago. I think there is certainly a large connecting presence, but not 70%. Maybe 35%-40%.

[min-chi-cbus]

Just build the flipping MSP-Chicago line the math is so mind numbingly simple.

But the politics......

This is why I can't be a City Planner. I love real estate and development but even if the numbers make sense and it's a "win-win" people may shut it down if you give them a vote. I'd rather sometimes let private enterprise determine what's what, while at other times I prefer public opinion, but I don't want to leave myself to the mercy of the public at every whim. The same is true here: although the math may be a slam dunk, politics will surely get in the way of what should be an easy decision. I'd rather somebody with the money just build it and say "sorry, I have the money and I think it'll work", thereby avoiding the inevitable 10 year debate.

[UptownSport]

Not sure how we got from Holman Field to HSR, but i dont mind!

My suggestion is to get business 'on board' with the plan-
It'd be a massive boon to industry- how many big names can you spit out right now that'd love quick, all weather service back and forth?

Perhaps there could be a private/public deal- ownership of a car by banks, package carriers-
McMaster Carr sends so much here 'crkitical' that it's prolly a semi van in itself.

The planned 110MPH is a joke- no better than what the best steam trains could do.
Fully agree do it right, elevate so train can blast and do a straight line, Milwaukee can get it's own hsr!

[MSPtoMKE]

I took this photo on the 9th, not sure if the 747 is still there...

United Arab Emirates 747 by MSPdude, on Flickr

[NickP]

Hi everyone. Did we decide the construction going on next the the Humphrey Terminal is terminal expansion? That is what is appears to be but whenever I look for news about it, all I can pull up is information about 34th Ave at I-494. If anyone has any articles about this, that would be awesome.

[Chauncey87]

The best two-hour layover in the U.S.

"Sometimes, flying direct just isn't an option, and you're stuck kicking around some airport terminal before boarding a plane to your final destination. Less than ideal? For sure. Painful? Totally depends on which airport you're trapped in. La Guardia's filthy, LAX is jam-packed, O'Hare is a known nightmare, and most mid-sized stopovers offer little more than Dunkin' Donuts or Panda Express."

http://travel.yahoo.com/ideas/the-best- ... 08531.html

It is nice when pretty much every single comment stays OT in the yahoo comment section.

[talindsay]

I love the commenter who says Minneapolis has mastered the art of being stuck inside - there might be more than a little truth to that.