Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

[Trademark]

Is there anyway around Municipal consent?

[John21]

Is there anyway around Municipal consent?

Yes, Brooklyn Center.

Man, that letter is terrible.

[SurlyLHT]

I don't know how you get up there, but something like this would theoretically work. (Penn Ave isn't that wide..do you take Lyndale or Washington Ave instead? ) Robbinsdale is the highlighted shape.

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[Trademark]

Does anyone know when the city council meeting for municipal consent is. Im attending and I think others here should too.

There will be plenty of NIMBYs there. We need to speak up in favor of this line.

[Bakken2016]

Does anyone know when the city council meeting for municipal consent is. Im attending and I think others here should too.

There will be plenty of NIMBYs there. We need to speak up in favor of this line.

I think late 2022, since the Met Council won't have a finalized route until March 2022.

[gopherfan]

If Robbinsdale doesn't want light rail, screw them. Bypass. https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/1/edit? ... sp=sharing

Could Victory Memorial Drive be used up to the CP spur?

[twincitizen]

Could Victory Memorial Drive be used up to the CP spur?

1. Park Board could (and almost certainly would) deny municipal consent.
2. Believe it or not, Victory Memorial Drive is in Robbinsdale city limits, as Xerxes Ave is the border. The entire park ROW (roadway, trail, and all lawn areas, etc.) is technically in Robbinsdale.

I wanted to opine a bit on Robbinsdale and Mike Opat's stance here and how that affects things moving forward. Once an alignment is selected, I think there will be tremendous pressure coming from the Governor, the Met Council, the County Board, Brooklyn Park, the Mpls Regional Chamber of Commerce (including and especially Target Corp), the Biden administration and our federal representatives, etc. to see this thing through. While the pandemic may have dampened some enthusiasm for the building of our transit system, I guarantee that the big business interests haven't changed their tune. Target Corp doesn't care how it gets to their north campus in Brooklyn Park, just that it does. All of the above will be twisting arms on the Robbinsdale City Council and trying to talk sense into them that their greatest fears about this project are unfounded. There will be concessions, whether that be physical mitigations, promises to invest money in Robbinsdale, etc. But I'm more optimistic than not that the forces in favor of building this line will prevail over the Robbinsdale City Council, even if it comes down to a 3-2 vote for municipal consent.

[thespeedmccool]

Yeah I had the same thought about Victory but that isn't happening.

The way I see it, if Robbinsdale rejects granting municipal consent, there are only a few options:

1. End the line at North Memorial (cue fights about suburbs/state paying for Minneapolis "toys")
2. Avoid Robbinsdale, probably by going up Lyndale or 94 to the CP spur (probably 94 because I think the Lyndale ROW is pretty narrow)
3. BRT instead (I think this is the most likely)
4. Try to wait out the current council for a new, transit-favorable one to get elected

No good options for the Met Council if Robbinsdale refuses use of Bottineau. It's probably time for someone to organize a group to start applying pressure on these yazoos on the council.

[thespeedmccool]

I can't help but point out that we've done this before. That is, reroute an LRT extension away from a dense commercial corridor and to a linear park and to a railroad ROW running between two lakes and behind mostly single-family homes to avoid the politically difficult option.

I don't think we should be in a place to do it again. If what you propose here is what the Met Council comes up with in the event of a Robbinsdale denial, it should just get cancelled or truncated. Let's not go through this again.

[SurlyLHT]

Maybe turn Fremont into LRT only then make Emerson a two way? Some homes or businesses may not have access to their properties from the alley however. A of the volume here already is transit. 94 isn't worth it, unless it can be tied into a complementary project to retake land from the freeway and return it to the community.

[Bakken2016]

Blue Line Project Office has posted two new documents.

https://metrocouncil.org/Transportation ... eport.aspx
- Route Modification Report

https://metrocouncil.org/Transportation ... mmary.aspx
- Route Modification Report - Summary

[Trademark]

Great point in there about the limited ability to provide access between both sides of the train on Lowry without having to acquire additional right of way which could end up dividing the neighborhood.

Also was surprised how much more the population was for the Lowry route. Particularly the stations on Lowry have a huge population count within the walkshed. I would be curious to see what the projected future population count could be for both routes if the vacant and public owned land was developed to the principles of Minneapolis 2040. (Obviously there will be a big margin of error in any development estimate but I think it would be useful for thinking long term for this route).

Additionally on the West Broadway segment where the option of having 21st avenue be a westbound one way I love to see that they incorporated a curved connection for the road westbound of Fremont following what would be the same path if light rail route was chosen there.

The alternative would be having westbound traffic turn right on Lyndale, left on 21st and left on Fremont and right on Broadway. Which would likely have negative congestion impacts on the D-line as well as make those turning locations extremely congested which will lead to impatient drivers forcing their turns without paying as much attention to pedestrians.

[Oreos&Milk]

Could Victory Memorial Drive be used up to the CP spur?

1. Park Board could (and almost certainly would) deny municipal consent.
2. Believe it or not, Victory Memorial Drive is in Robbinsdale city limits, as Xerxes Ave is the border. The entire park ROW (roadway, trail, and all lawn areas, etc.) is technically in Robbinsdale.

I wanted to opine a bit on Robbinsdale and Mike Opat's stance here and how that affects things moving forward. Once an alignment is selected, I think there will be tremendous pressure coming from the Governor, the Met Council, the County Board, Brooklyn Park, the Mpls Regional Chamber of Commerce (including and especially Target Corp), the Biden administration and our federal representatives, etc. to see this thing through. While the pandemic may have dampened some enthusiasm for the building of our transit system, I guarantee that the big business interests haven't changed their tune. Target Corp doesn't care how it gets to their north campus in Brooklyn Park, just that it does. All of the above will be twisting arms on the Robbinsdale City Council and trying to talk sense into them that their greatest fears about this project are unfounded. There will be concessions, whether that be physical mitigations, promises to invest money in Robbinsdale, etc. But I'm more optimistic than not that the forces in favor of building this line will prevail over the Robbinsdale City Council, even if it comes down to a 3-2 vote for municipal consent.

..how about we re-route it through their bank accounts? No? Bet then they would flake out faster than the MOA did when they need money for station improvements.

I like the transit-only concept of 21st Ave N. Even if there is only sidewalks it could be a great biking option and opportunity to build a nice mini-greenway. It could connect to North Commons Park on the western side, and eventually with a tunnel under 94 connect to the riverfront. Given Cub is smack dab in the middle doing so would greatly improve access to good food options for the community without dependable car transportation. Plus maybe it's not to late to see if an actual bike trail could be included in the concept as well?

[Trademark]

Could Victory Memorial Drive be used up to the CP spur?

1. Park Board could (and almost certainly would) deny municipal consent.
2. Believe it or not, Victory Memorial Drive is in Robbinsdale city limits, as Xerxes Ave is the border. The entire park ROW (roadway, trail, and all lawn areas, etc.) is technically in Robbinsdale.

I wanted to opine a bit on Robbinsdale and Mike Opat's stance here and how that affects things moving forward. Once an alignment is selected, I think there will be tremendous pressure coming from the Governor, the Met Council, the County Board, Brooklyn Park, the Mpls Regional Chamber of Commerce (including and especially Target Corp), the Biden administration and our federal representatives, etc. to see this thing through. While the pandemic may have dampened some enthusiasm for the building of our transit system, I guarantee that the big business interests haven't changed their tune. Target Corp doesn't care how it gets to their north campus in Brooklyn Park, just that it does. All of the above will be twisting arms on the Robbinsdale City Council and trying to talk sense into them that their greatest fears about this project are unfounded. There will be concessions, whether that be physical mitigations, promises to invest money in Robbinsdale, etc. But I'm more optimistic than not that the forces in favor of building this line will prevail over the Robbinsdale City Council, even if it comes down to a 3-2 vote for municipal consent.

..how about we re-route it through their bank accounts? No? Bet then they would flake out faster than the MOA did when they need money for station improvements.

I like the transit-only concept of 21st Ave N. Even if there is only sidewalks it could be a great biking option and opportunity to build a nice mini-greenway. It could connect to North Commons Park on the western side, and eventually with a tunnel under 94 connect to the riverfront. Given Cub is smack dab in the middle doing so would greatly improve access to good food options for the community without dependable car transportation. Plus maybe it's not to late to see if an actual bike trail could be included in the concept as well?

Talking with the planners of the project they have completely written off tunneling. One of them even told me the only reason the tunnel in the airport happened was because the airport paid for it. I also asked if there was any thought in extending 21st Ave n across 94 and making it into a one way pair with Broadway connecting to the exit at West Broadway which would have freed up a lot of space for protected bike lanes. They said that Kemp's shot down that idea very quickly.

[Hero]

Would it be possible to have at grade stations with shallow tunnels between stations? Maybe have the cross streets go beneath the stations like at Franklin station.

[Trademark]

Would it be possible to have at grade stations with shallow tunnels between stations? Maybe have the cross streets go beneath the stations like at Franklin station.

I feel like youd still be paying a lot of money for utility relocation as well as digging down would be pretty disruptive. But I don't know

[MNdible]

Once you add vertical circulation and ventilation to below grade stations, your costs go up exponentially.

But the space requirements also go up a lot, and in the very tight Broadway corridor, this might be even more of a deal breaker.

[Bakken2016]

This project will bet at grade through Minneapolis, they are going to be spending all the political capital to get Robinsdale to say "yes to County Road 81"

[Trademark]

This project will bet at grade through Minneapolis, they are going to be spending all the political capital to get Robinsdale to say "yes to County Road 81"

Im expecting it's going to end up elevated in Robbinsdale north of 39th.

[Hero]

Once you add vertical circulation and ventilation to below grade stations, your costs go up exponentially.

But the space requirements also go up a lot, and in the very tight Broadway corridor, this might be even more of a deal breaker.

I wasn't suggesting below grade stations but rather tunnels between stations. Maybe have the BRT platforms under the LRT stations. Just trying to think of a way to have some grade separation in the city.