38th Street Station Area

[MNdible]

Works out to be $184,000/unit, which isn't terribly surprising. Building stuff is expensive.

[alexschief]

Oh no, I messed it up. Here we go:

[John21]

Yellow Tree development at 24th Ave/38th Street was at the CPC on 12/3 with 4000 sqft commercial.

Went by this site last night, it's fenced off and they're cleaning up the demo'd gas station.

[Anondson]

[Silophant]

Hey, the 2040 plan height minimums (four stories in Transit 15) work! Now if only they had gone with Transit 20 down Hiawatha, or at least at the station nodes.

[amiller92]

Not sure why I think so, but seems like the "cut out" with the dog walk should face the back instead of Hiawatha.

[John21]

Hopefully this goes through. It would be nice to finally get something built on that empty lot. Now we just need Lander to figure out their phase 2 with the city and the Checkerboard proposal move along. Would be great for the 'hood!

[fehler]

Not sure why I think so, but seems like the "cut out" with the dog walk should face the back instead of Hiawatha.

No, the sunset side is the best. And no complaints when/if something goes up on the ADA Medical block.

[HiawathaGuy]

LOVE this! Much better than a one level commercial building that had been intended/planned for this space.

[twincitizen]

Interesting that it's only 4 stories. I have to imagine the lack of a 5th and/or 6th floor is driven entirely by parking constraints and the desire to not go underground for more parking. As planned, this has 102 apartments and 50 parking spaces. That's a pretty good/low parking ratio for a project on a Metro line. You can certainly commute to work car-free, but this area is still pretty far from becoming a "complete neighborhood" in which you could live a full life without a car (groceries, etc.) Many residents (probably more than 50!) will still own cars here.

Construction-wise, they could easily replicate Floor 4 over a potential 5th and 6th floors (with typical 5+1 construction). Each additional floor of apartments would mean 33 more units, (if floors 5 & 6 were identical to 4). So you'd be looking at about 135 or 168 units. Clearly they aren't interested in doing so with the currently planned supply of 50 spaces, or they'd be doing it. Going underground would approximately double the amount of parking, so 100 spaces. I'm not sure what point I'm trying to make other than that they certainly could build a building with ~168 units and ~100 parking spaces, but they are choosing to instead build a smaller and less expensive project with ~100 units and ~50 spaces. The latter scenario must pencil out better for the developer. They could also build a 5-story building with ~135 units over the currently planned 50 parking spaces, which would obviously pencil out better than the current proposal (33 more units), but that low of a parking ratio probably can't get bank financing.

[MNdible]

There may be some credence to Nick's suggestion that the immediately adjacent power lines could be limiting the height. As the image shows, the existing neighbor to the south is a short five stories.

[Silophant]

There's no official limitation on height due to nearby power lines. Habitable structures can't be built at all in the actual right of way (with some exceptions, like the skyway between the Graco buildings south of Broadway), but you can build as tall as you want right up to the edge. There's a similar power line running right through the middle of Midtown Atlanta, with skyscrapers immediately adjacent:


There's definitely some extra safety precautions you have to take to work near energized lines though, which could certainly be a factor along with the parking thing.

[amiller92]

You can certainly commute to work car-free, but this area is still pretty far from becoming a "complete neighborhood" in which you could live a full life without a car (groceries, etc.) Many residents (probably more than 50!) will still own cars here.

Reidy's Market is 3/4 of a mile away. It's a little under a mile to Everett's and a little over a mile to Cub. I've never shopped at Tare, so I don't know how much of your needs you can get with zero waste, but it's even closer, on the 2700 block of 38th St. There are a bunch of places to eat within an easy walk. There's a Walgreens by the Cub. Elevated's great beer selection is only three long blocks away. Heck, there's even a walkable movie theater and garden center.

You can definitely live there without a car if you want to.

[alexschief]

When I lived in Prospect Park, in the pre-Fresh Thyme days, I could make a grocery run at the Rainbow in Midway via the train (three stops) and be back home within an hour. For snacks and small single items, I went to a nearby Super America.

The 38th St. Station area has even better access to groceries and convenience stores. These amenities aren't right across the street, but they are very close. A trip in either direction, either to the Cub at 46th or the Cub+Target at Lake, is on average less than seven minutes, station to station. I'm sure many people might want cars, but it would not be difficult at all to live without one at this location.

[John21]

I definitely take the Blue Line or Nice Ride to go to the store from time to time using this station. Car free would be very doable. Also can take the 23 bus to Lunds across the river. Still think that AMA Medical should turn back into a grocery store though!

[Sara Bergen]

Not sure why I think so, but seems like the "cut out" with the dog walk should face the back instead of Hiawatha.

I agree. Hiawatha is a loud, busy, and visually un-interesting street/stroad/highway. My understanding is that eventually the tracks will be converted to a green space. Why not face the green space and/or the much quieter Dight/Snelling avenues?

[twincitizen]

This is on the 2/10 CPC Agenda. Recommended for approval.
Plans: https://lims.minneapolismn.gov/download ... %20Ave.pdf

[Silophant]

Should have been Transit 20 (with its associated 6-story minimum) this close to a LRT station. Alas.

[Sara Bergen]

Interested to see how this leases up, and at what rent amounts. As far as I can tell, this is the first market-rate apartment building to be built south of Lake Street directly on the east side of Hiawatha. Longfellow Station and Millwork are both affordable. Hiawatha Flats is all market rate but offset from Hiawatha and on the east side of the rr tracks.

[twincitizen]

If it leases quickly, it would be great to see Lander's 38th St Station development resurrected. That's gonna be a huge bummer if that doesn't get built before this boom cycle starts drawing down and/or lending tightens up, etc. Especially since it's an expensive, complicated project that involves rerouting a street, building a plaza, etc...everything probably has to be going really well for that to work out financially.