Green Line Extension - Southwest LRT

[Nick]

I can't remember if I've posted this here or not, but what we really oooooought to do is combine a bunch of the planned projects. Take the 1.? billion slated for Southwest, ~200 million for decorative Nicollet streetcar, ~50 million for Nicollet Mall rebuild, and whatever's budgeted for the Virginia Triangle rebuild in the next few years, and put that together to do something that isn't haphazardly slapped together like some sort of transit version of the ACA. I realize it's nowhere near that simple (especially when it comes to the federal match) but at this point it feels right. I was thinking of slapping together a streets.mn article to that end, but even I'm getting pretty tired of hearing about this. Approaching Vikings stadium-level of apathy. Burn it all down. Put out a press release full of buzzwords that say nothing. Take a picture with a shovel. Don't get anything in writing or double check anything before embarking on a decades-long, billion dollar process. Tops.

[LRV Op Dude]

Southwest LRT Resolution from Corridor Management Committee. It now goes to the Transportation Committee on Oct. 14 and than to Metropolitan Council on Oct. 16

[mullen]

this is the problem with our piecemeal approach to transit. no dedicated funding unlike other metros. it's biting us in the backside as we lurch from project to project.

i've been apathetic about this rail line from when the maps came out showing a complete bypass of mpls dense neighborhoods. i'm still waiting to hear what the grand benefit of this project is to the city. city losing parkland. billion dollars plus for suburban economic development. meh.....so let another metro get the federal dollars, wouldn't be the first time we've let that happen, either.

[HoratioRincewind]

Prediction: not one more usable yard of passenger rail of any kind is laid in the city of Minneapolis before the year 2025.

[Chauncey87]

"Mayor Rybak casts only ‘no’ vote on Southwest light-rail tunnels"

"Over the protest of Minneapolis, metro leaders signed off Wednesday on a $160 million plan to hide part of the region’s biggest light-rail line in tunnels through a recreational ­corridor in the city.

Minneapolis Mayor R.T. Rybak cast the lone no vote among 16 mayors, county commissioners and other leaders. He deplored a lack of alternatives to the tunnels and questioned whether they would harm the city’s lakes."

http://www.startribune.com/local/south/227083161.html


Now can we start getting the bids out?

[Mdcastle]

I know I come in with a suburban mindset, but I still think it's crazy that it's OK to inconvenience 25,000 cars a day by closing Washington Ave, but not 3,000 bicyclists a day (and is this average or on a nice summer day?) by moving a bike trail.

[Tcmetro]

Went to the open house in Kenwood tonight. A lot of angry people, which was expected. A lot of people who thought that the Penn and Van White stations should be eliminated in addition to the station at 21st Street. Someone was complaining that criminals would rob houses on Kenwood Parkway and use their Siemens S70 getaway vehicle at Penn Ave Station, and that they should just use the Van White Station, and someone else said that the Van White station was pointless and in the middle of nowhere. A lot of people put up post-it notes saying the Penn Ave Station should be eliminated.

I left comments about adding a pedestrian bridge from the Penn Station to the Kenwood neighborhood to mitigate the loss of the 21st St Station, as well as eliminating the north tunnel saving $60 million. It's pretty ridiculous that the Met Council is pandering to the NIMBYs but can't put a tunnel along W Broadway and have a station at N Memorial Hospital. But that's a topic for a different time.

They did add an elevator access to the W Lake Street Station, for better access to those from the west.

There were also bus routes placed on the boards. Van White has a bus terminal under the bridge adjacent to the LRT platforms. The 4 as well as new route 8 would stop there. I believe the 8 would be a new line from North Minneapolis. The Penn Station, surprisingly, didn't have the 19 extended there. One of the planners said the kiss-and-ride would be built for future bus usage. The West Lake station would have the 25 using the France Ave bus turnaround, the 17, 21, and 53 on the Lake St bridge, and new routes 601, 602, and 612 (which I would imagine would replace the France Ave branch of the 6 and the 12 lines), and Beltline would have the 604 and 605 lines.

[Silophant]

I know I come in with a suburban mindset, but I still think it's crazy that it's OK to inconvenience 25,000 cars a day by closing Washington Ave, but not 3,000 bicyclists a day (and is this average or on a nice summer day?) by moving a bike trail.

You're absolutely right. This is preposterous.

[mulad]

Even before Green Line construction began, automobile traffic only accounted for 38% of the total traffic across the Washington Avenue Bridge, due to the large proportion of bike/ped traffic and bus riders.

[Anondson]

True. But they aren't closing the bridge. They will close Washington Avenue through the campus.

[VAStationDude]

Mulad's point is closing Washington will certainly increase throughput while making the experience much better for the majority who aren't in private vehicles. Mdcastle made a silly analogy.

[thatchio]

Please explain the 4 bus thing going to VW station. Would it be a branch of the 4, as it wouldn't make any sense to have buses from south Minneapolis run to VW and then into Downtown or bypass downtown.

[eazydp]

I work, drive, bike and walk on Washington Avenue every day and can say the experience for everyone (including cars) is better. Unsurprisingly, a number of people were using Washington Ave as a shortcut from Downtown, not to get to campus. Biking, and walking is fantastic without the insane traffic shooting through at 45-50MPH off of the bridge. Driving on campus is more or less the same, it is slow but you can still get to 94/35W in a reasonable amount of time. I'm not sure how much that will change when buses and Light Rail begin running again. To be honest, buses have really been impacted negatively with detours, the routes are much slower, so that should improve.

Anyways, as I mentioned above, I think removing the Bike path is a reasonable alternative is there was a contingency plan, seems like you could throw $20m at some awesome path and come out $100m ahead. I've frequently biked on Hiawatha LRT trail and honestly, the vehicles are quiet and hardly disruptive. I live in the heavy MAC zone though, so maybe my tolerance is high.

Pretty frustrating that tunnel can be OK'd through a friggen former rail trail, but not in Downtown Minneapolis where it would make sense.

[Tcmetro]

Please explain the 4 bus thing going to VW station. Would it be a branch of the 4, as it wouldn't make any sense to have buses from south Minneapolis run to VW and then into Downtown or bypass downtown.

I didn't ask about the bus routes, just reporting what I saw on the maps.

I would imagine that there is a serious consideration of splitting the north and south routes into separate routes, and the 4 that would serve Van White would be the NE Mpls branch. Of course, that's just speculation on my part.

[Silophant]

To clarify my above comment, I also really like the way Washington Ave has turned out through campus. A tunnel would have been cool, and slightly faster, and more convenient in the wintertime, etc. but that's a price I'm willing to pay for no longer having a major arterial through the heart of campus. Busses and trains, fine. Semis and oblivious SUV drivers, not fine. But those benefits weren't the reason the tunnel was axed, it was because of cost. And it's stupid that we couldn't get a tunnel through either downtown or the U, and only got one under the airport because the airport paid for it, but we're getting one under a bike trail in a rail corridor. But I'm preaching to the choir here.

[UptownSport]

CIDNA taking a cue from SLP safety campaign:

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/displa ... ing-louder

Interesting that the rail was from 1920's. Evidently doesn't wear (appreciably

[Berlinerin]

I can't remember if I've posted this here or not, but what we really oooooought to do is combine a bunch of the planned projects. Take the 1.? billion slated for Southwest, ~200 million for decorative Nicollet streetcar, ~50 million for Nicollet Mall rebuild, and whatever's budgeted for the Virginia Triangle rebuild in the next few years, and put that together to do something that isn't haphazardly slapped together like some sort of transit version of the ACA. I realize it's nowhere near that simple (especially when it comes to the federal match) but at this point it feels right. I was thinking of slapping together a streets.mn article to that end, but even I'm getting pretty tired of hearing about this. Approaching Vikings stadium-level of apathy. Burn it all down. Put out a press release full of buzzwords that say nothing. Take a picture with a shovel. Don't get anything in writing or double check anything before embarking on a decades-long, billion dollar process. Tops.

Nick, your combination of projects makes a lot of sense, and would actually accomplish what urban rail should. I worry that we're going to spend almost $2B and still not have urban rail that serves lots of people in dense urban neighborhoods . And it would be hard to make the case for more resources in the southwest corner of the city after getting $2B without much to show for it. Would Dinkytown style presence at city hall make a difference? Maybe, but it would need to be a lot of people.

[Berlinerin]

Regarding the 4: I don't know why the NE branch of the 4 would be any more likely to go to Van White than the southern branch. Coming from the south in the morning, the bus fills up until Loring Park and people start getting off at MCTC with the bus being mostly empty by the north end of downtown and handful crossing the river. Either direction, going to VW station seems like a really bad choice.

[twincitizen]

Can we just put the bus talk on hold for a sec? That's really putting the cart before the horse. At the appropriate time, someone can start a separate thread to discuss SWLRT-related bus service re-routings. I'm sure it will be a lively discussion. Also, if one more person talks about Washington Avenue in this thread I'm going to...do nothing really, but seriously knock it off.

[RailBaronYarr]

Mulad's point is closing Washington will certainly increase throughput while making the experience much better for the majority who aren't in private vehicles. Mdcastle made a silly analogy.

Exactly. Car-focused myopia once again. How many additional people will now pass through from the Weisman to Walnut when this is done, and how much safer will it be? And people can still access campus via Washington by private vehicles. It will just take them an extra 2-3 minutes and wont put them right through the busiest pedestrian area in the state (just a guess, and obviously only from Sept-May).

Edit: Sorry, twincitizen. Didn't see your post at the bottom, and would respected it. M'bad.